Building a MS1 ecu for a Punto GT

[GT3turbo]

Ill get some pics to prove it!

Going to move the E/WG and also weld in some supports, its my fault its cracked as the oil cooler was touching and stressing the weld.

Should only take a few days to sort so still might get on the rollers.

Adi

[Mr Hans]

Ill get some pics to prove it!

Going to move the E/WG and also weld in some supports, its my fault its cracked as the oil cooler was touching and stressing the weld.

Should only take a few days to sort so still might get on the rollers.

Adi

I bet if it was anyone other manufacturers manifold it would their fault

[GT3turbo]

Well it lasted a year without the oil cooler pushing on it sooo, yea it is my fault.

Adi

[jimn]

There's a few things here that I want to point out..

i) It's all well and good the MS device being more tunable than any plug and play chip - but ultimately, it is only as good as the mapper. That's where the "who maps MS?" debate starts.. this is the same for any standalone system.

ii) Mappers make most of their money in labour charges - the EMS used is almost irrelevant from that perspective.

iii) Mappers get used to using the same software associated with an EMS of their choice (DTA or similar), so although the principle of mapping is the same, it may aswell not be - a guy who is good with DTA, isn't neccessarily going to be good with Motec.

iv) Anything that claims to be as good as another piece of kit, for less than half the price, is often to good to be true. If MS is/was as good as the rest, it would be the most widespread EMS used. It's a standalone EMS, but a very basic one at that - hence the 'Maplins' branding, and it's market position is somewhere between a full blown race ECU and the SEB4. It's comparable to a Dastek Unichip IMO.


Don't look at this reply and think I'm against the MS system, because I'm not - I'm all for £-for-£ tuning, and where you can save money you should. I just have my doubts until something conclusive has been proven. Now Adi has conveniently sprung a manifold leak.. every time he's due on the rollers there's some excuse or other

The reason it is cheaper is because you buy raw materials. Not packaging, branding, storage or research and development costs. It was developed by enthusiasts so no greedy fooker wants your money

The reason not everyone uses it is because it takes time to work out how to build it properly. Enter DrEvil! he is the man who has brought this out of the darkness. A normal tuner making money from it would charge loads to build it to the right spec then install and map it.

The whole thing about tuners only mapping systems they are comfortable with seems a bit lazy on there part. If a mapper cant be arsed to get his head round where the settings are in MS(cus this is what it boils down to) im not sure i want him mapping my car at all..! Its no more complex than any of the systems i have seen. In fact considerably simpler than the piggy back poo like e-manage.

The way i see it. Years ago peope used to tune carbs on a reguler basis and advance timing with dizzy caps. This was undertaken by enthusists before Electronic fuel injection arrived then it wasnt an option anymore. Now its possible to tune again but everyone shits themselves cus no one remembers how to do it and apparently you WILL blow your engine up!!

Granted some people just want to pay there money and get there power but they arnt the sort of people contemplating MS so im sure they will carry on making good power on sebs. For the ones who want to research and build a fast punto MS is there, affordable and waiting.

jimn

[Superman]

Worth noting that the BOSCH Motronic system is standalone...


Gordan at Streetracers said to me he will map anything if he has or can be provided with the software, a mapper doesnt need to be a pro with one specific system just know what the specifics of mapping an engine is, im sure once you can map MS you could map anything to the same degree and then practice makes perfect of course.

Im not as enthusaistic about it as some because it involves alot of reading which i naturally shy away from, other then that i cant wait

[Debo]

The reason it is cheaper is because you buy raw materials. Not packaging, branding, storage or research and development costs. It was developed by enthusiasts so no greedy fooker wants your money

The reason not everyone uses it is because it takes time to work out how to build it properly. Enter DrEvil! he is the man who has brought this out of the darkness. A normal tuner making money from it would charge loads to build it to the right spec then install and map it.

The whole thing about tuners only mapping systems they are comfortable with seems a bit lazy on there part. If a mapper cant be arsed to get his head round where the settings are in MS(cus this is what it boils down to) im not sure i want him mapping my car at all..! Its no more complex than any of the systems i have seen. In fact considerably simpler than the piggy back poo like e-manage.

The way i see it. Years ago peope used to tune carbs on a reguler basis and advance timing with dizzy caps. This was undertaken by enthusists before Electronic fuel injection arrived then it wasnt an option anymore. Now its possible to tune again but everyone shits themselves cus no one remembers how to do it and apparently you WILL blow your engine up!!

Granted some people just want to pay there money and get there power but they arnt the sort of people contemplating MS so im sure they will carry on making good power on sebs. For the ones who want to research and build a fast punto MS is there, affordable and waiting.

jimn

I don't want to pull your post to pieces mate, so I wont - but ultimately, it's not widespread purely because nobody decent maps it. Dr Evil, without taking anything away from what he's done for this club, is not the person who has revolutionised Punto tuning or brought the MS system out of the darkness. It's been around for quite a while, and has been used a few times in Europe. It's not new technology, and it's not something that will take off either, there's too much better competition - for that reason, I wont be investing today, therefore, I'm out.

I'm quite happy to be proven wrong by Adi once he's got his car mapped and RR'd - with his spec he should be making 230-240hp - I'll have a punt @ 215-220hp tops, which is the very top end of SEB4 capability.

[danmotty]

hold on... in regards to the previous argument about no point on seb 2 didnt birdraceruk prove that it was indeed worth while by getting 187bhp on a VL7. or was it on an MD103?

[danmotty]

sorry just seen its a TT stage 1, my bad. ill keep out of it...

[Mr Hans]

sorry just seen its a TT stage 1, my bad. ill keep out of it...

yeah, shutit fatty and piss off to Oz

[GT3turbo]

I'm quite happy to be proven wrong by Adi once he's got his car mapped and RR'd - with his spec he should be making 230-240hp - I'll have a punt @ 215-220hp tops, which is the very top end of SEB4 capability.

With no forged internals / stock cam / and stock head? Abit high maybe?

Adi