Well, yes, you're right - mappable EMS' are ultimately better than the SEB, but they are only as good as the mapper.. a poorly tuned MS ECU is not going to be as good as the generic plug n play SEB chip. This is a point I have raised in the past, the MS isn't as widespread as DTA/Motec/Emerald/Gems etc so high quality mappers aren't exactly based in every major city in the UK - there's probably less than a handful of people who can do the job properly in the entire country (could be more, could be less - never bothered researching as I ran a DTA). This would cause a problem, and also add to the costs involved, if you had to do a 400 mile round trip for example, just because you decided to run more/less boost or you've changed your camshaft.....
If you have any car care related questions, ask me in the Cleaning/Detailing section.
The 'your car' bit is true to a point, but only when the mods are big enough. Your engine is the same as everyone elses GT engine.
If the engines were different enough between each persons car to warrant different mapping the tolerances would all be different and I wouldnt expect any of the engines to last at all. Im suprised the pistons would fit
For the money you cant really go wrong with a seb. They get results and have been tried and tested. They also work almost everytime.
Once megasquirt is on you are in the realms of hobby car. Although having said that standalone on jap stuff is a day to day occurance and people will have a 700hp daily driver sooo.
The seb map does seem to be a good map as it can make up to 170 bhp without a bigger turbo.
That said though megasquirt does have some nice features like launch control and no lift to shift (i think) Also you can map in a bit of retard in the low load cells to get a few pops and bangs on over run that will put a smile on your face.
There is always gona be that little niggle in your mind that you could run a couple of extra degrees up top to push the 170 bhp wall
Ask nick (birdracer) how he feels about his mapped up MS and how it compares to the seb. This might sway your desicion a little.
Next weekend we can see if MS can improve on 205bhp (seb4).
Adi
Originally Posted by GT3turbo
Good Luck!
Surely your car should be doin 230+
I'm not sure why people seem to be putting MS in a catagory between Seb and the major branded standalone. Regardless of your thoughts on it the people that have branded it a Maplin device from what I can tell are those that haven't used it.
MS is standalone in it's own right and is far more tuneable than any plug and play chip.
With regards to mapping, yes I'm sure that a lot of tuners have not mapped MS, however once the vehicle specific constants have been setup the principle of mapping is exactly the same, although I'm sure most tuners would prefer to map the units of the manufacturers they sell purely from a profit point of view.
There is no reason that anyone should cause any damage to a car with MS as long as they do their research and apply common sense.
At the end of the day if you aren't interested in learning how to map and the principles of it then be prepared to pay for a mapping session on top of your MS equipment.
It all depends on the outcome and what you want from your car.
The seb is tried trusted and works and you have someone who knows their way round it - Hans.
Stand alone ecus, or professionally mapped piggybacks (unichip) are for people that are exploring different routes to tuning - here you need the flexibility of being able to map and remap cheaply and quickly. Megasquirt is cheap and gave me the experience of mapping so I 'understand' the issues. Its also damned expensive in time to get working. Its impossible to get RR locally unless you are very, very lucky. And its not that cheap when you pencil in all the costs, its just another choice.
My recommendation is : find a RR local to you and ask them what they use and use that. They know how it works, are familiar with maps for it, they'll have proper backup. It'll be cheaper in the long run. If they say Megasquirt or emerald (for example) then research both.
I'll say that megasquirt is not Maplins! Its an excellent Stand alone in its own right.
My local tuner GTaRT recommended unichip Q on mine. So thats what I used this time, £800 fitted including RR. Thats as cheap and as good as it gets.
With ECUs you have to use a professional for the best results, so use the thing they have experience with. On here its the SEB chip, unless you are doing something different.
Yes it was as fun as it lookedDr Evil - you are a bad, bad man
excellent thread by the way, only came across it wednesday and have read it three times alreadyand cross referenecd with the DITAutoTune site as well, and i have a couple of questions/queries that i'm hoping you (or anyone else) can help with......
from all the reading i have been doing i have come to the conclusion that a wideband o2 sensor is also required along with the list of parts that you have compiled, am i correct in thinking this?
also, just really an opinion wanted really, i'm not looking at going all out silly power (yet) but am intrigued by your thread and want to have a crack at building 1 myself, (was it as much fun as it looked?)
I have no problems finding someone to map mine if I want them too.
I'm very happy with the way my car runs on MS
Project Thread
---> Add Your Puntos Here Please <---
http://www.torquestats.com/hall_of_fame/Fiat/Punto+GT
Yes thats right
Project Thread
---> Add Your Puntos Here Please <---
http://www.torquestats.com/hall_of_fame/Fiat/Punto+GT
There's a few things here that I want to point out..
i) It's all well and good the MS device being more tunable than any plug and play chip - but ultimately, it is only as good as the mapper. That's where the "who maps MS?" debate starts.. this is the same for any standalone system.
ii) Mappers make most of their money in labour charges - the EMS used is almost irrelevant from that perspective.
iii) Mappers get used to using the same software associated with an EMS of their choice (DTA or similar), so although the principle of mapping is the same, it may aswell not be - a guy who is good with DTA, isn't neccessarily going to be good with Motec.
iv) Anything that claims to be as good as another piece of kit, for less than half the price, is often to good to be true. If MS is/was as good as the rest, it would be the most widespread EMS used. It's a standalone EMS, but a very basic one at that - hence the 'Maplins' branding, and it's market position is somewhere between a full blown race ECU and the SEB4. It's comparable to a Dastek Unichip IMO.
Don't look at this reply and think I'm against the MS system, because I'm not - I'm all for £-for-£ tuning, and where you can save money you should. I just have my doubts until something conclusive has been proven. Now Adi has conveniently sprung a manifold leak.. every time he's due on the rollers there's some excuse or other
If you have any car care related questions, ask me in the Cleaning/Detailing section.
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