This isnt a whether I am right or wrong thread just an obbo......what do you think about Hot Hatch power levels and prices these days???
After reading up on the new Astra VXR with 276bhp/295lb/ft it got me thinking about where power levels are heading as they keep going up (same as the prices). Its getting like the old M3 vs RS4 vs AMG C63 tussle where every year a new more powerful version is released.
Thing is the new Astra lists at £27,000 and to me hot hatches are supposed to be affordable - yes the power levels have gone up year on year (most of the time) but Im shocked at where prices are now for such power. Not many can stretch to a £500 GT these days let alone £27k for an Astra. I dont like the look of the new VXR for what its worth. I dread to think how much a standard 1.4 astra costs these days.
there seems a blurring too between hot hatches and uber hatches. The Focus RS has 305bhp, Audi RS3 335bhp yet the VXR is nigh on 280bhp - not far behind at all. Is it an Uber or a Hot hatch? Remember when everybody held wrx scoobies and post evo 5s in high esteem because they had at least 280? now shopping hatches are at these levels and I think its all going a bit crazy.
Wheels are now getting ridiculously large too - 20inch on the VXR
and looking at photos of the car cornering I wonder how long it will be gouge free around the rims with such low pro tyres!
The new basic Focus ST is still £21,500 but with "only" 247bhp......
Then VW are to freshen up the Golf GTi and give it 260bhp - what will the R get?
Mazda 3 MPS 260bhp
Megane 265
I remember when the list price on a new GT was £10,995! I'm getting old......
Not only they all seem to be sticking with FWD despite the ever higher outputs. Are these cars useable to their full extent on todays roads anyway? I barely get to stretch my GT these days so having nigh on 300 at your disposal seems a waste but your paying to have all that excess grunt.
Makes you wonder why manufacturers dilly dally when the engines can make xyz outputs from day one they only tend to tweak them up when another manufacturer turns the heat up creating that my dads bigger than your dad syndrome trying to outdo each other.
Weights - Audi seem to be making inroard in reducing weight with the new A3 only being 1175kg. Pity more manufactuers are being serious about this which would mean better economy and less power needed to make the desired figures over a flabbier version.
Last edited by clarkster; 13th June 2012 at 09:52.
I have to agree with you.
Why have a car that is capable of 140, 150, 160+, when the fastest that a car can go, on a UK road, is 70mph?
Acceleration, I can fully understand, being an ex-biker, but max speed is totally irrelevant on a road car. There would be more sense in spending the development budget on making the car more economical, and reliable.
There have been engine and engine management developments too, you know, some for power alone others which also enhance economy. Research the Fiat Punto Evo and New 500 MultiAir engine technology. It's there if you look for it.
I rather despise all these swaps to V8 engines in the higher end (not really 'hot' or 'uber' hatches, I know, but that may come) as it's not a very economical base point to start from. As for prices, well the manufacturers are trying to 'milk' those with more money than sense with the gamut of high spec. vehicles and hoping to stay 'on a par' with each other. "It's all in the game" seems apropos here.
Yes, it is 'a game', as far as manufacturers are concerned. But, there has to come a point, whereby, they stop force feeding us with all this over-priced tat, which only differs from the 'other model', by a minuscule amount, ie, a different badge.
I think that I am now in the 'mid-life crisis' danger area; I am in my 40's, grown-up kids, well paid job etc, so these hot/uber hatches should be ringing all my bells. But they don't. The reason? They are all boring, eurobox clones. There is no individuality, no obvious corporate 'shape', no passion.
Honestly, if money were no object, within certain parameters, I would much rather have an older car; a mk1 escort mexico, for example, still makes me go weak at the knees.
There's a guy who I work with, 25, he's just bought an 07 plate Audi RS4 for 33k. I know this is slightly off topic, he was showing off about the amount of power it had 400+, when I said I bet it had a rubbish 0-60 (6seconds i believe) he called me all the names under the sun.
Plus with newer cars they have too many sensors, which then results in more money being spent if something went wrong. I could easily afford a newer car than my GT but I don't see the point in spending, say 6k, on something that would give a slightly better 0-60 and better MPG. The only benefit is, it's newer and girls like sensible cars apparently.
This is another very good point.Originally Posted by chetchet007
With the advent of 'computer controlled' cars, so came the extortionate servicing costs. Your 'average Joe' is no longer capable of doing simple repairs and servicing, due to the vast amount of diagnostic equipment that is needed.
When I was a kid, in the seventies and eighties, people always had their cars in bits; engines, gearboxes and suspensions were simple things, repairable, serviceable, and replaceable by the owner, with only very simple tools, and a Haynes manual.
I love technology, and I love gadgets, but sometimes, less is more.
RS4 Avant's about 4.6 to 60.
911 Carrera is good value for money these days. Been the same price for years.
i drove a astra vxr recently, it was raining and it was probably my worst experience of driving a car ever, it had zero grip, with traction control on even the slightly acceleration meant it was cutting in and out and jerking the car, turn it off and it spun both wheels and kept throwing me towards the kerb.... absolute rubbish.
my evo 5 on the other hand, you wouldnt even really know if it was raining or dry by how it drives.
I've been talking about this with my friend for awhile, I thought they'd gone back to the 'old school' when they bought out small hatches with bigger engines.
But turns out they're alot heavier and in turn alot slower than hot hatches of the GT era. The Renault Twingo sport for example, 133bhp small car (alot smaller than a GT) yet only reaches 60mph in just under 9 seconds.
Same story with the "accurately" name 'Mini' Cooper S, Fiesta ST and Suzuki "Swift" Sport. Not a fan of newer cars in general tbh, not enough passion in cars anymore.
im only 20 and i dont like new cars
me and my mate both got similar bhp ive got a vtr saxo 100bhp my mate hes got a seat leon sx 103bhp
ive got 1 air bag in mine no abs and not much of safety features and it shows wen i pull quite far in front of him
i think im gonna have older car pre health and safety bollocks took fun out motoring
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